Terminator Salvation Discussion

Note: The following conversation is filled with SPOILERS so beware. As you were.

Trying something a little different this time. Sam and I debate our vastly different reviews via AIM. Sam is FrogCD and I am BobChanning2o5. Enjoy!-Jordan

FrogCD (8:13:10 PM): very different reviews
BobChanning2o5 (8:13:34 PM): indeed
BobChanning2o5 (8:13:39 PM): i knew id like it more than you
FrogCD (8:15:21 PM): i'm not excited to see what's next it ended with james cameron in my mind
FrogCD (8:15:33 PM): t2 was one of the best sequels ever
FrogCD (8:15:46 PM): i truly believe that and i wish cameron made this movie instead of mcg
FrogCD (8:16:03 PM): and that the third didn't exist
BobChanning2o5 (8:16:54 PM): hehehe
BobChanning2o5 (8:17:05 PM): i agree that T2 was a great sequel
BobChanning2o5 (8:17:15 PM): but i think if the next one is more robot killing, ill be happy
BobChanning2o5 (8:17:20 PM): i guess we had different expectations
BobChanning2o5 (8:17:26 PM): lets do the discussion
FrogCD (8:17:43 PM): i think ultimately i would not want this movie to be made at all
FrogCD (8:18:17 PM): the idea of the first two was that by saving john connor (unborn or scrappy pre-teen) the humans would win that's it
BobChanning2o5 (8:18:25 PM): right
BobChanning2o5 (8:18:27 PM): and they will
BobChanning2o5 (8:18:32 PM): but they were always going to
BobChanning2o5 (8:18:38 PM): its not really a nihilistic series
FrogCD (8:18:41 PM): those movies also had emotional depth because they discussed the future of the world
BobChanning2o5 (8:18:43 PM): now we just get to see how they do
FrogCD (8:18:53 PM): now the future already happened and its who gives a fuck?
FrogCD (8:19:20 PM): i don't know, i'd have to believe cameron stopped for a reason
BobChanning2o5 (8:19:38 PM): i was never really invested in the "emotional punch" f the future thing
BobChanning2o5 (8:19:50 PM): i got invested in the relationship between john and the terminator in t2
FrogCD (8:19:52 PM): that's what makes a great action movie great, provides the 'splosions and gives u something to think about
BobChanning2o5 (8:19:57 PM): other than that it was all about killing things for me
BobChanning2o5 (8:20:03 PM): and they do a lot of that in this movie
FrogCD (8:20:03 PM): its the tradition of the franchise even if its not the goal of all action moives
FrogCD (8:20:39 PM): like the goal of die hard was to blow the fuck out of shit, and it was perfect
FrogCD (8:20:42 PM): and had some laughs
BobChanning2o5 (8:20:58 PM): why are we doing this here?
FrogCD (8:20:59 PM): the terminator series was like we gotta stop this terrible shit from happening to earth. Are we doomed
BobChanning2o5 (8:21:11 PM): but you already knew the stuff would happen to earth
FrogCD (8:21:14 PM): cause i'm lazy, y don't u just copy and paste this convo
BobChanning2o5 (8:21:20 PM): not a bad plan
BobChanning2o5 (8:21:29 PM): 9how meta of this once its published)
FrogCD (8:21:29 PM): they still try to stop skynet in the second movie
BobChanning2o5 (8:21:36 PM): right, but clearly they fail
BobChanning2o5 (8:21:42 PM): or no terminators would ever come back
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:01 PM): you know at the end of the second movie that they fail, if memory serves
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:09 PM): which was resonant for me as well
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:17 PM): they knew they would fail, but they tried anyway
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:23 PM): because it was the right thing to do
FrogCD (8:22:33 PM): yeah which is about trying to control one's destiny
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:41 PM): right
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:51 PM): and the terminator movies say pretty clearly that you cant do that
FrogCD (8:22:55 PM): that's something to think about that isn't just someone yelling "Hold On!"
BobChanning2o5 (8:22:57 PM): whats bound to happen is bound to happen
FrogCD (8:23:03 PM): yeah but they said something
BobChanning2o5 (8:23:21 PM): i may disagree with that point, but its maintained throughout the three movies worth talking about
FrogCD (8:23:25 PM): this movie basically grabbed a handful of already used sci-fi cliches and threw them on the screen
FrogCD (8:23:35 PM): what makes us human?
BobChanning2o5 (8:23:36 PM): i mean you know that john and kyle live, but you always knew that
FrogCD (8:23:37 PM): c'mon
BobChanning2o5 (8:23:55 PM): from the original you knew how kyle died and that john would save humanity
BobChanning2o5 (8:24:35 PM): so watching him do that becomes an exercise in the definition of humanity (which is overdone, but an exceptible "idea" to explore in an action movie) as well as kick ass action
FrogCD (8:24:36 PM): but in the second they send ANOTHER terminator to try to change the future which is what it's all about. can you change the future? in this movie we are already in the future
BobChanning2o5 (8:24:45 PM): ill buy the premise of an overdone idea if the action is good
BobChanning2o5 (8:25:23 PM): well, sort of
FrogCD (8:25:24 PM): the action was fine but this did not hold a candle to T2.
FrogCD (8:25:38 PM): it wasn't great but its not only about the action with series
BobChanning2o5 (8:25:40 PM): i mean, really "the future" talked about throughout the series would be humanity's victory over skynet
FrogCD (8:25:50 PM): its the ar
BobChanning2o5 (8:25:50 PM): it does seem like a sort of forced extension of the story
FrogCD (8:25:53 PM): *war
BobChanning2o5 (8:25:57 PM): but i think they made it seem natural
BobChanning2o5 (8:26:21 PM): see, i think we strike on a fundamental difference between our views here
BobChanning2o5 (8:26:27 PM): i never LOVED the terminator movies
FrogCD (8:26:32 PM): it didn't feel like a terminator movie to me, it felt like a normal sci-fi, featuring special guest...the terminators
BobChanning2o5 (8:26:33 PM): i just thought they were good action flicks
BobChanning2o5 (8:26:42 PM): and so was this one
FrogCD (8:26:52 PM): i thought T2 was an example of a brilliantly done sci-fi/ action
BobChanning2o5 (8:26:56 PM): plus, my expectations were so tremendously low that i came out surprised
FrogCD (8:27:30 PM): my expectations were in the middle, if that makes sense. after the third one i thought it could only go up
BobChanning2o5 (8:27:54 PM): really? you though McG guaranteed an improvement
BobChanning2o5 (8:27:55 PM): ?
BobChanning2o5 (8:28:05 PM): i though Christian Bale was the one thing this movie had going for it
FrogCD (8:28:08 PM): over the last piece of shit, yeah
BobChanning2o5 (8:28:18 PM): turns out he wasnt even the strongest performance in it
FrogCD (8:28:21 PM): i think he kinda slipped in and out of his batman voice
FrogCD (8:28:34 PM): which was a bit annoying
BobChanning2o5 (8:28:41 PM): i think John Connor could have been more compelling, but that wasnt the aim
FrogCD (8:28:43 PM): sam worthington's accent drove me nuts
BobChanning2o5 (8:28:45 PM): this was really Marcus' story
BobChanning2o5 (8:28:56 PM): heh...i just ignored it because he was killing things
FrogCD (8:28:57 PM): they should have just made him austrailian
FrogCD (8:29:05 PM): and made it easy for the poor guy
FrogCD (8:29:24 PM): bale is allowed to do an american accent cause he can pull it off, worthington didn't even seem to try
BobChanning2o5 (8:29:28 PM): let me put it to you this way, to perhaps justify what must seem like a high grade
FrogCD (8:29:36 PM): how about the impossibly sexy fighter pilot
BobChanning2o5 (8:29:44 PM): I measured this movie by the "awesome" quotient
FrogCD (8:30:06 PM): i judged it by the "how good is the movie" quotient
BobChanning2o5 (8:30:06 PM): i.e. i looked at how many times I said "Awesome!" vs. how many times i rolled my eyes or way annoyed by something
BobChanning2o5 (8:30:13 PM): was*
FrogCD (8:30:20 PM): i likely rolled my eyes a few more times than you
BobChanning2o5 (8:30:31 PM): yeah, i was clearly just pulled in by the movie
FrogCD (8:30:33 PM): i laughed out loud for reals at one line
BobChanning2o5 (8:30:34 PM): which speaks well to it
BobChanning2o5 (8:30:40 PM): see, i didn't
BobChanning2o5 (8:30:46 PM): and im usually the guy mockingthe movie
FrogCD (8:30:46 PM): "your heart is so strong"
FrogCD (8:30:49 PM): i just had to laugh
FrogCD (8:31:05 PM): because-he-is-a-ro-bot
BobChanning2o5 (8:31:14 PM): for some reason i was willin to overlook all of the eye-roll moments because the action was incredibly well done
FrogCD (8:31:15 PM): a lot of it reminded me of jack's little short movie
BobChanning2o5 (8:31:34 PM): everybody loves a robot, indeed
BobChanning2o5 (8:31:37 PM): especially moon bloodgood
BobChanning2o5 (8:32:27 PM): i mean, ill admit my grading was a little soft on it
FrogCD (8:32:47 PM): on a normal action movie i'd probs be softer, but this is an established franchise
FrogCD (8:32:58 PM): which is why i think so lowly of the third as well
BobChanning2o5 (8:33:04 PM): but i stand by it because i was so drawn in by what was supposed to be drawing me in that i avoided mocking the stuff that wasnt
BobChanning2o5 (8:33:10 PM): i looked at this as straight up action
BobChanning2o5 (8:33:19 PM): anything not an action scene wasn't of much use to the movie
BobChanning2o5 (8:33:26 PM): and the action scenes were ncredibly strong
BobChanning2o5 (8:33:33 PM): something you failed to really note in your review
BobChanning2o5 (8:33:40 PM): can we agree on that point at least?
FrogCD (8:33:51 PM): no i noted it , i just disagreed. biig difference
BobChanning2o5 (8:34:14 PM): you didn't think the action was very solid?
BobChanning2o5 (8:34:38 PM): that motor-home chase, ending with him leaping onto the hovercraft?
FrogCD (8:34:41 PM): it was solid, but not great, there weren't any memorable action scenes in my mind, that i will remember
FrogCD (8:34:45 PM): that's redundant
BobChanning2o5 (8:34:52 PM): im definitely remembering that for a while
FrogCD (8:34:57 PM): sorry
FrogCD (8:35:03 PM): the part you just said i forgot
BobChanning2o5 (8:35:29 PM): heh
BobChanning2o5 (8:35:53 PM): so, to sum up: you wanted this to be an emotionally resonant, philosophically deep action/sci-fi thriller?
BobChanning2o5 (8:36:03 PM): if thats true, youre grade makes sense
BobChanning2o5 (8:36:07 PM): and is even, perhaps, a bit high
FrogCD (8:36:43 PM): i wanted it to have a bit more of a brain than it did, the cameron movies were not just sitting and sulking but they gave you something to actually think about for a minute unlike this movie
BobChanning2o5 (8:36:56 PM): i get that
BobChanning2o5 (8:37:04 PM): it might just be that i havent seen the others in so long
BobChanning2o5 (8:37:13 PM): i usually go back and marathon through a series before the new one
BobChanning2o5 (8:37:29 PM): but, as my review noted, i only bought them hours before i saw the new one
FrogCD (8:37:37 PM): don't get me wrong, they're not 2001 or anything like that but they at least give you a little something to take away other then 'splotions
BobChanning2o5 (8:37:42 PM): I intend to go back and re-watch them with my brother soon
FrogCD (8:38:11 PM): i think 2 is far superior to 1, but at the time both movies were incredibly innovative
BobChanning2o5 (8:38:13 PM): i dont recall being that provoked to thought by them though
BobChanning2o5 (8:38:25 PM): i remember thinking one was a very solid genre flick
BobChanning2o5 (8:38:34 PM): and 2 was a flat out awesome action movie
BobChanning2o5 (8:39:13 PM): after i saw one, i was blown away by two
FrogCD (8:39:35 PM): i think 1 and 2 may have more thinkin' just because they dealt more with the plot and dealing with skynet, in this movie it all already happened so they could clear it up really quickly in a few lines
BobChanning2o5 (8:40:09 PM): yeah, i think i noted throughout my review this wasnt a plot heavy movie
BobChanning2o5 (8:40:20 PM): perhaps my distance from the series allowed me to not mind that
BobChanning2o5 (8:40:37 PM): just a quick aside: how much do you love helena bonham carter?
FrogCD (8:40:57 PM): a lot, but not that much in this movie, i mean she was only in it for like 5 minutes
BobChanning2o5 (8:41:05 PM): sshe was really the non-action high point for me though
BobChanning2o5 (8:41:26 PM): when she was the voice of skynet, i actually thought "wow, the movie has a bad guy...with a plan!'
FrogCD (8:41:39 PM): sure, she was the best actor in the movie probs. except bale might beat her on a good day, and her on a bad day
BobChanning2o5 (8:41:48 PM): whenever it switched to another actor, i just wanted it to still be her
FrogCD (8:42:54 PM): i didn't understand why john was so fucking surprised to see a robot that looked like a human, uhhh the 2nd terminator when he hung out with a terminator that looked human
BobChanning2o5 (8:43:14 PM): i think he was just shocked when it started moving and kicking his ass
BobChanning2o5 (8:43:24 PM): the resistance new those terminators were being designed
BobChanning2o5 (8:43:29 PM): they just didnt know they were ready
FrogCD (8:43:56 PM): but still, john was acting like he never saw one before, which he had
BobChanning2o5 (8:44:08 PM): i didnt get that
BobChanning2o5 (8:44:32 PM): i think it was like if you saw your cool uncle who died thirty years ago walk out of a room when you were in a high stress situation
FrogCD (8:44:41 PM): perhaps
BobChanning2o5 (8:44:45 PM): when he knew the terminator, they were only allies
BobChanning2o5 (8:44:50 PM): and they had a strong bond
BobChanning2o5 (8:45:09 PM): then, however long in the future, one pops out before he knows its ready and starts throwing him around
FrogCD (8:45:12 PM): yeah but his mom freaked the fuck out, rightfully so, when john and the terminator came to get her
BobChanning2o5 (8:45:25 PM): yeah, because she knew it as a villain
BobChanning2o5 (8:45:30 PM): he only knew it as a hero
FrogCD (8:45:40 PM): ur talking about when the arnold robot was fighting john
BobChanning2o5 (8:45:44 PM): the series really misses linda hamilton, btw
FrogCD (8:45:48 PM): i'm talking about when john found out marcus was a robot
FrogCD (8:45:56 PM): totally missed linda hamilton
BobChanning2o5 (8:45:57 PM): well he was a new kind of robot
FrogCD (8:46:03 PM): but thanks to the third movie she died of cancer
BobChanning2o5 (8:46:08 PM): yeah
BobChanning2o5 (8:46:17 PM): that whole movie was cancer
FrogCD (8:46:20 PM): how was he different then arnold in the second
BobChanning2o5 (8:46:28 PM): if she didnt have it before hand, it wouldve given it to her
BobChanning2o5 (8:46:34 PM): ...fictionally speaking
FrogCD (8:46:43 PM): yeah, i was gonna say
BobChanning2o5 (8:46:48 PM): marcus is half robot haldf human
FrogCD (8:46:53 PM): meh
BobChanning2o5 (8:46:53 PM): arnold was always all robot
FrogCD (8:47:04 PM): i'd say like 95% robot
FrogCD (8:47:10 PM): he had a human heart
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:11 PM): ok, now we're quibbling
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:16 PM): i have to go
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:21 PM): so lets sum this whole thing up
FrogCD (8:47:26 PM): c+
FrogCD (8:47:28 PM): there
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:32 PM): hehehe
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:35 PM): fair enough
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:43 PM): whereas, i defned it as a very solid action movie
FrogCD (8:47:47 PM): u want me to try to copy and paste this bad boy?
BobChanning2o5 (8:47:59 PM): ill do it
FrogCD (8:48:03 PM): thanks
BobChanning2o5 (8:48:05 PM): sure
BobChanning2o5 (8:48:16 PM): Coming this week: Up